Michael, soulbrother -- I'm so glad you said this, man. I'm so tired of the Fathers this, the Fathers that -- who cares. Clement was a spiritual thug. Look at every Orthodox icon, ever, and find one person who is even smiling, much less rejoicing -- it gets to be such a soulless, heartless drag. All this "Disregarding the body, for it passes away, and caring instead for the soul, since it is immortal" left hemisphere fantasy crap. I find such healing balm in The Secret Sayings of Ye Su (maybe from the Tang Dynasty, one of the artifacts of Luminous Religion of the West, now gone): **"One day, as Ye Su taught his disciples , Peter left to quiet children who were playing in the courtyard and disturbing his concentration. Ye Su asked, 'Where are you going?' Peter replied, 'To make the children be quiet.' Ye Su said, 'Do not do that; let us go outside.' The children were playing a game, laughing and showing great delight. Ye Su said, 'Behold, the kingdom is like this, full of joy and gladness; let us join them.' And so Ye Su and his disciples played with the children all afternoon."** Let's add that to the canon, then anathematize platonic joylessness, punch some orthobro neo-Old Believers in the mouth, and call it a day.
Good to see you, Graham—I hope that you've been well! I have a book that will be coming out very soon now, so I'll send you an e-mail to alert you when that happens.
I couldn't have said it better myself. When I saw the Jesus never laughed trend, I was appalled, but also confused as to why one would post it at such a festive time of the year (especially at a time when we need laughter, dance, and wine). As if it wasn't obvious. Jesus is fully human and fully divine, after all. Orthobros are going to Orthobro though, I guess.
Jesus absolutely had a sense of humour! I love his back-and-forth with the Canaanite woman who parries him blow for blow when he calls her a dog -- and he actually praises her! I find it hard to comprehend how any human person can behold the beauty in this world and think Jesus is austere. This reminds me of the hullabaloo over The Chosen television series in depicting Jesus telling lame, youth minster-y jokes. The lame jokes may be bad art; they're not necessarily bad theology.
In 2021 I listened to quite a lot of episodes of The Lord of Spirits podcast, and even read the book, which did a lot in re-enchanting my worldview but which ultimately made me weary with its insistence that all spirits not angelic are necessarily demonic. It saddened me, and I've distanced myself from it for a time; it is not the faith of which I'm familiar, in which saints and hermits commune and baptise mermaids.
Of course Jesus laughed. And obviously, no one bothered to write it down because Jesus was a man, and men laugh—that's normal. If He never laughed, then that would have been weird, and they would have made a note of it: "He walked upon the earth, and not once did He ever laugh."
(And that's not symmetrical with "Jesus wept," as we can also confirm from ordinary experience. We might make a special note when someone is deeply moved and cries, whereas we wouldn't think to do so when they laugh.)
I was taught "Jesus didn't weep because he was sad, he wept because of his strong empathy, everyone else was crying!" which is "worse" of those?! Or if he was weeping because they didn't have faith strong enough, wouldn't that actually be bad?
Tangentially - I was drawn to the Orthodox Church over the RCC, in no small part because of married vs celibate priesthood. Call me crazy but I want to make confession to and be led by a spiritual Father who loves a woman and loves his children/grandchildren, who loves being human even as we strive to become more holy together. This joyless drag ain’t it.
Commenting on these lines,George Whicher, in his This Was A Poet, says,"Could it be that those tortured limbs were convulsed with celestial laughter?If the drama of the cross ended in salvation, would not Jesus be inwardly smiling?She could not think it otherwise."
And Christ was of course sophisticated and playful enough in his dealings with people to know that humour was a vital part of his armoury.Charles Williams would surely concur.
I find all of Christ's parables have a certain playfullness in the way he juggles words and ideas to make a point. It is rather sad that Peter (the petrified block head) and the diciples often dont get it.
That said, today humor is often melicious, so I can see why some people, who may have been harmed by melicous humor, are unable to find humor in Christ's stories.
Yeah, you are kind of heretical, into stuff I think is superfluous like Tomberg and the Tarot, so what! But I overlap with your biodynamic and nature Druidic gig. I relate directly to trees without dryad intermediaries. In Lewis’s book That Hideous Strength he has one of good guy characters say we need to get back into relationship with nature similar to the one Merlin had.
If one can't look over one's own life and see that God has a sense of humor, I don't know what to say. I've been on the butt end of too many cosmic jokes to count!
"I might very well find myself standing on a pile of faggots, tied to a post..." I am feeling Jan Hus listening to the laughter of the Church as the flames engulfed his body.
Every year we listen to John Langstaff's "Christmas Revels" on the winter solstice and throughout the Christmas season. "Lord of the Dance" is one of my favorites from that album. The song's writer, Sydney Carter, had some unconventional ideas about God that would probably chafe a lot of Puritans. From Carter's obituary in The Guardian, "With irony - though never with bitterness - Sydney satirised every form of self-righteous faith; to be without doubt was, to him, the ultimate in godless pride."
Michael, soulbrother -- I'm so glad you said this, man. I'm so tired of the Fathers this, the Fathers that -- who cares. Clement was a spiritual thug. Look at every Orthodox icon, ever, and find one person who is even smiling, much less rejoicing -- it gets to be such a soulless, heartless drag. All this "Disregarding the body, for it passes away, and caring instead for the soul, since it is immortal" left hemisphere fantasy crap. I find such healing balm in The Secret Sayings of Ye Su (maybe from the Tang Dynasty, one of the artifacts of Luminous Religion of the West, now gone): **"One day, as Ye Su taught his disciples , Peter left to quiet children who were playing in the courtyard and disturbing his concentration. Ye Su asked, 'Where are you going?' Peter replied, 'To make the children be quiet.' Ye Su said, 'Do not do that; let us go outside.' The children were playing a game, laughing and showing great delight. Ye Su said, 'Behold, the kingdom is like this, full of joy and gladness; let us join them.' And so Ye Su and his disciples played with the children all afternoon."** Let's add that to the canon, then anathematize platonic joylessness, punch some orthobro neo-Old Believers in the mouth, and call it a day.
Let's go play with the kids!
Good to see you, Graham—I hope that you've been well! I have a book that will be coming out very soon now, so I'll send you an e-mail to alert you when that happens.
I couldn't have said it better myself. When I saw the Jesus never laughed trend, I was appalled, but also confused as to why one would post it at such a festive time of the year (especially at a time when we need laughter, dance, and wine). As if it wasn't obvious. Jesus is fully human and fully divine, after all. Orthobros are going to Orthobro though, I guess.
For real - what happened to “Joyous Feast” ?!
Yay! I want a truly human and truly Divine Jesus. I believe this is what Nicene Creed says:)
ikr?
Jesus absolutely had a sense of humour! I love his back-and-forth with the Canaanite woman who parries him blow for blow when he calls her a dog -- and he actually praises her! I find it hard to comprehend how any human person can behold the beauty in this world and think Jesus is austere. This reminds me of the hullabaloo over The Chosen television series in depicting Jesus telling lame, youth minster-y jokes. The lame jokes may be bad art; they're not necessarily bad theology.
In 2021 I listened to quite a lot of episodes of The Lord of Spirits podcast, and even read the book, which did a lot in re-enchanting my worldview but which ultimately made me weary with its insistence that all spirits not angelic are necessarily demonic. It saddened me, and I've distanced myself from it for a time; it is not the faith of which I'm familiar, in which saints and hermits commune and baptise mermaids.
Of course Jesus laughed. And obviously, no one bothered to write it down because Jesus was a man, and men laugh—that's normal. If He never laughed, then that would have been weird, and they would have made a note of it: "He walked upon the earth, and not once did He ever laugh."
(And that's not symmetrical with "Jesus wept," as we can also confirm from ordinary experience. We might make a special note when someone is deeply moved and cries, whereas we wouldn't think to do so when they laugh.)
I was taught "Jesus didn't weep because he was sad, he wept because of his strong empathy, everyone else was crying!" which is "worse" of those?! Or if he was weeping because they didn't have faith strong enough, wouldn't that actually be bad?
Tangentially - I was drawn to the Orthodox Church over the RCC, in no small part because of married vs celibate priesthood. Call me crazy but I want to make confession to and be led by a spiritual Father who loves a woman and loves his children/grandchildren, who loves being human even as we strive to become more holy together. This joyless drag ain’t it.
"Gay were Gethsemane
Knew we of thee," (Emily Dickinson).
Commenting on these lines,George Whicher, in his This Was A Poet, says,"Could it be that those tortured limbs were convulsed with celestial laughter?If the drama of the cross ended in salvation, would not Jesus be inwardly smiling?She could not think it otherwise."
And Christ was of course sophisticated and playful enough in his dealings with people to know that humour was a vital part of his armoury.Charles Williams would surely concur.
I find all of Christ's parables have a certain playfullness in the way he juggles words and ideas to make a point. It is rather sad that Peter (the petrified block head) and the diciples often dont get it.
That said, today humor is often melicious, so I can see why some people, who may have been harmed by melicous humor, are unable to find humor in Christ's stories.
My question for those that believe he never used the bathroom: Was Jesus talking about constipation when he said to take the narrow path?
*rimshot
Yeah, you are kind of heretical, into stuff I think is superfluous like Tomberg and the Tarot, so what! But I overlap with your biodynamic and nature Druidic gig. I relate directly to trees without dryad intermediaries. In Lewis’s book That Hideous Strength he has one of good guy characters say we need to get back into relationship with nature similar to the one Merlin had.
and we'll always have mead!
I finished the *Space Trilogy* recently and enjoyed what CS Lewis did there with Merlin.
Over the years I re read portions of those books and keep finding nuggets I hadn’t seen before. Lewis had a deep eclectic mind.
Thanks for this thoughtful response!
If one can't look over one's own life and see that God has a sense of humor, I don't know what to say. I've been on the butt end of too many cosmic jokes to count!
"I might very well find myself standing on a pile of faggots, tied to a post..." I am feeling Jan Hus listening to the laughter of the Church as the flames engulfed his body.
So glad to find this. I am so sick of the joyless ritual of many Orthodox.
Just gonna point out - there's a reason that neither Clement of Alexandria nor Tertullian have "Saint" in front of their names...
I SEE Christ laughing all the time. It looks like this to me:
https://youtu.be/pZVdQLn_E5w?si=-rJvuKw0qOjJg_8b
thanks for this
Every year we listen to John Langstaff's "Christmas Revels" on the winter solstice and throughout the Christmas season. "Lord of the Dance" is one of my favorites from that album. The song's writer, Sydney Carter, had some unconventional ideas about God that would probably chafe a lot of Puritans. From Carter's obituary in The Guardian, "With irony - though never with bitterness - Sydney satirised every form of self-righteous faith; to be without doubt was, to him, the ultimate in godless pride."
❤❤❤