I share your love for Berdyaev and his fellows particularly Pavel Florensky whose murder at the hands of the NKVD is one of the great lessons young people should learn. No matter how much he tried to imply his piety into the materialism of Russian Communism they still hated him for his spiritual life. In other words you can never ingratiate yourself enough to the materialist overlords that they will have a change of heart and not despise you.
I have spent my adult in the visual arts. My wife and I are out amongst other artists and the public much of the time and I write about it. My opinions about the nature of the world are well known and many "artists" shy away and some are outright hostile when I am present. I don't care what the materialists think of me it is not important. What is important is that my demeanor supports the world that is not seen rather than the world that appears "real". This is a constant struggle against conventionality. Of course it wear one down at times yet my armor may be tarnished and dented the soul it protects is not wounded by the arrows cast from the enemy that invades our world. At times I am weary from the fight but I must recall what Berdyaev says so eloquently: freedom is not a gift, "Freedom is our duty."
Some years ago, there was discussion in the men's movement about the need for initiation. Older men observed that when young men aren't initiated by authentic elders in an in-tact wisdom culture, they'll try to fulfill the urge through self-initiating, for example through 17 year olds 'initiating' 14 year olds in high school locker rooms, or 21 year olds 'initiating 18 year olds' in frat basements.
I think there might be a parallel here in what you're discussing. I think there's a good case for many young men undergoing a finite season of radical renunciation, and training in 'monk school' (archetypically speaking). Ideally that would be guided by elders, and there would be a time limit (maybe 1 or 2 years?), then they're thrust back into the world to learn, live and love. I believe there was (maybe still is) a tradition of this sort in Thailand - that many boys would spend some time behind monastery walls, knowing they'd live their vocation in the world soon enough.
Without elders, perhaps we're witnessing the 'self-guided' attempt at this season of renunciation, but without guides, and without a razor clear understanding of the end purpose, and what it is training/readying them for....
As a wife and mother to four young men (30-18) and 4 daughters as well, i wish this were in written form :). I can read faster than you speak, and pass on words easier than a video :). I love that you are thinking about these things. My 12 year old is reading about Parzival this week.
Funny you should mention that! Starting Thursday I will be running a series on the New Middle Ages in which I will cover this in writing, though that won't show up until the third installment.
Even if one disagrees on some points (and I’m not sure if I do or not), I don’t see how one could deny the necessity for unexpected observations such as this. I appreciate them.
I think actual monks, like the desert fathers, made sort of a virile retreat. And monks do a lot of good. But I think you’re not against monks per se. You are talking about a very contemporary phenomenon: a very life denying retreat from the world vs a vigorous fighting engagement. Seems like a real dichotomy to me.
HI- An elder woman here. Gangs of men can mean death or rape of at least group hatred...unless it is a football team lead by a Good man ( see Dabo Sweeney at Clemson). Charlottesville comes to mind ..poorly educated or poorly cared for men who end up spewing venom and violence. I think you see my point. Too often, boys or young men fall for the right wing hatred and you know it is happening. I am anthro SISTER and I have faith, however. Faith that women will also be knights, as well as those young men you hold so high. blessings on Candlemas/
I imagine you're talking about his discussion in 'The Struggle with God'? I'm a big Evdokimov fan, but his take on monasticism never really resonated with me. I think maybe he romanticizes it too much? It's not an uncommon phenomenon. 2000 years of conditioning runs deep.
It's a long chapter of "Ages of the spiritual life". I'm bringing it up because it could be a middle way between the two poles you described. I don't think it's a romanticization: Eastern Orthodoxy has always seen monastic life as a way for both monks and laity, in so far as the latter strive to live in the world by the same principles.
I share your love for Berdyaev and his fellows particularly Pavel Florensky whose murder at the hands of the NKVD is one of the great lessons young people should learn. No matter how much he tried to imply his piety into the materialism of Russian Communism they still hated him for his spiritual life. In other words you can never ingratiate yourself enough to the materialist overlords that they will have a change of heart and not despise you.
I have spent my adult in the visual arts. My wife and I are out amongst other artists and the public much of the time and I write about it. My opinions about the nature of the world are well known and many "artists" shy away and some are outright hostile when I am present. I don't care what the materialists think of me it is not important. What is important is that my demeanor supports the world that is not seen rather than the world that appears "real". This is a constant struggle against conventionality. Of course it wear one down at times yet my armor may be tarnished and dented the soul it protects is not wounded by the arrows cast from the enemy that invades our world. At times I am weary from the fight but I must recall what Berdyaev says so eloquently: freedom is not a gift, "Freedom is our duty."
Some years ago, there was discussion in the men's movement about the need for initiation. Older men observed that when young men aren't initiated by authentic elders in an in-tact wisdom culture, they'll try to fulfill the urge through self-initiating, for example through 17 year olds 'initiating' 14 year olds in high school locker rooms, or 21 year olds 'initiating 18 year olds' in frat basements.
I think there might be a parallel here in what you're discussing. I think there's a good case for many young men undergoing a finite season of radical renunciation, and training in 'monk school' (archetypically speaking). Ideally that would be guided by elders, and there would be a time limit (maybe 1 or 2 years?), then they're thrust back into the world to learn, live and love. I believe there was (maybe still is) a tradition of this sort in Thailand - that many boys would spend some time behind monastery walls, knowing they'd live their vocation in the world soon enough.
Without elders, perhaps we're witnessing the 'self-guided' attempt at this season of renunciation, but without guides, and without a razor clear understanding of the end purpose, and what it is training/readying them for....
Actually, the first paper I ever wrote as a college student was on gangs as boys initiating boys into manhood and the problems that come with that
I thought you were going to have a written version of this. I know it's a lot of work. I don't generally do it, but both ways are good.
As a wife and mother to four young men (30-18) and 4 daughters as well, i wish this were in written form :). I can read faster than you speak, and pass on words easier than a video :). I love that you are thinking about these things. My 12 year old is reading about Parzival this week.
Funny you should mention that! Starting Thursday I will be running a series on the New Middle Ages in which I will cover this in writing, though that won't show up until the third installment.
Even if one disagrees on some points (and I’m not sure if I do or not), I don’t see how one could deny the necessity for unexpected observations such as this. I appreciate them.
Thanks
I think actual monks, like the desert fathers, made sort of a virile retreat. And monks do a lot of good. But I think you’re not against monks per se. You are talking about a very contemporary phenomenon: a very life denying retreat from the world vs a vigorous fighting engagement. Seems like a real dichotomy to me.
There’s only one way of putting this Michael—YES!👍🏻
HI- An elder woman here. Gangs of men can mean death or rape of at least group hatred...unless it is a football team lead by a Good man ( see Dabo Sweeney at Clemson). Charlottesville comes to mind ..poorly educated or poorly cared for men who end up spewing venom and violence. I think you see my point. Too often, boys or young men fall for the right wing hatred and you know it is happening. I am anthro SISTER and I have faith, however. Faith that women will also be knights, as well as those young men you hold so high. blessings on Candlemas/
Thanks for most interesting post, Michael.
No doubt you're familiar with the following verse by Karl Konig, founder of Camphill ?
Are these the knights whereof you speak , I wonder?
"There is a knighthood of the 21st century
whose riders do not ride through the darkness
of physical forests as of old,
but through the forest of darkened minds.
They are armed with a spiritual armor
and an inner sun makes them radiant.
Out of them shines healing,
healing that flows from the knowledge
of the human being as a spiritual being.
They must create inner order, inner justice,
peace and conviction in the darkness
of our time.
~ Karl Konig
I wonder if you're also familiar with Evdokimov's "interior monasticism"?
I imagine you're talking about his discussion in 'The Struggle with God'? I'm a big Evdokimov fan, but his take on monasticism never really resonated with me. I think maybe he romanticizes it too much? It's not an uncommon phenomenon. 2000 years of conditioning runs deep.
It's a long chapter of "Ages of the spiritual life". I'm bringing it up because it could be a middle way between the two poles you described. I don't think it's a romanticization: Eastern Orthodoxy has always seen monastic life as a way for both monks and laity, in so far as the latter strive to live in the world by the same principles.
Pretty sure there is neither monks nor knights among these