The sectarian squabbles of Christianity have long since passed from irrelevance into something far worse. Pay it no more mind. One of the pitfalls of modernity is getting suckered into constantly feeling a need to stake out one’s position. Waste of time.
I do think it’s fine for many (probably most) people to seek more community than house church affords. I know I can’t cut it with that; but that doesn’t mean I like any of my institutional choices. Situation is hard for everyone, especially people with kids at home—as the anecdotes with your children evince.
just acquired a beautiful 2019 BCP from the Anglican Church of North America for ten bucks. In terms of religion, you don’t need much more than that (and scripture) on a basic level, I think—that and the good green earth. But one craves fellowship and other minds to learn from. The theologian who has spoken to me the most in the past few years is Paul Tillich and, if he counts, Jean Grenier (Camus’ teacher), a sort of Taoist/Christian quietist.
Academics tend to be fussy—like babies. Tillich is the 20th century Eckhart or Eriugena. Then again, the Church censored the work of those men, so I guess it figures.
It's been decades since I read Tillich. I don't think think he made a huge impression on me--but I'm pretty sure my friend, the novelist Jonathan Geltner is a fan. Grenier...I have never read. So sorry to not be much help!
The Courage to Be is Tillich’s famous book, and to me it’s a great work of “negative theology.” But the place to start with Tillich is probably his sermons/essays, of which there are several collections.
Grenier is very subtle, maybe an acquired taste. I like his book on Taoism, but I don’t think that’s in English. If you don’t read French and can find an English copy, his book of essays called The Islands is short and, to me at least, strangely powerful. I periodically re-read that book and never fail to find it inspiring.
That quote from Simone Weil is so powerful. And rewilding sounds like a good idea to me! I raise my glass to you Michael Martin. Cheers! And here’s to new adventures.
Thank you for sharing a snapshot of your family's religious practices, and your explanation of your idea of "Alternative Catholicism".
As you likely know--from having read both my memoir and my latest work-in-progress--I have always considered myself to be on the margins of the institutional church, one foot in, one out. Moreover, I have never felt any real relationship to my Catholic (writ broad and deep) beliefs. I have not paid much attention to them, and have found few, if any, of the church leaders to be holy men. So, when their atrocities have been exposed, I don't feel alienation from Catholicism at large. It's a Wisdom Tradition that dates back millenia, and its mystics, writers, philosophers, poets, and artists have given us an enormous body of rich material to nourish our souls. That Great Tradition is what I associate with my sense of Catholicism (write broad and deep), and not the petty and corrupt members of the hierarchy.
Thanks for getting this Substack going. I enjoy your writings and admire your lifestyle. You use digital media very artistically (I'm still learning the basics of how to post something to my brand-new website. )
thank you for putting into words what many feel (even if they don't want to admit it), especially since the 2020 events. what is left in the institutional form but an egregore? it is tough, but facing reality is imperative.
Mar 31, 2023·edited Mar 31, 2023Liked by The Druid Stares Back
Love that comment of Massingham's. I came across him while researching Rolf Gardiner. Any recommendations of Massingham's books? So many I don't know where to start.
There is, especially in Thomas Traherne, Henry Vaughan, the Philadelphians, and in some aspects of the Cambridge Platonists. The Anglicans, for all of their political and social ridiculousness, still have remnants of some of the medieval Catholic folk practices that the RCs have tried to ignore in favor of "inclusiveness and modernity."
Just a note on Massingham: I said "ordered" prematurely -- that book is unobtanium. Perhaps you could have a word with Angelico about a new edition? And perhaps you could write the introduction? In the meantime, off to interlibrary loan...
Thank you for this. I was raised Roman catholic, and in my early teens my revulsion at similar scandals led me to distance myself from the Church, and eventually into atheism. In recent years I have come back to religious belief and explored the Catholic tradition more deeply (Weil, french phenomenology, Augustine etc). I have started praying the rosary and attending mass again. And I have known many Catholics who I think of as moral examples (the catholic worker movement is still quite strong where I live). But I can't feel completely at home. I have no problem being an unorthodox Catholic, but it makes it more difficult to find community, especially among people my age who seem to embrace rigid dogma for its own sake, or to be 'trad' first and Catholic second. I also find the sacrament of confession particularly difficult, given my issues with the institutional church - I haven't been in years and I can't see myself going in the near future. In any case, this was a great read - I really appreciate your perspective.
Isabella, I'm in a similar situation, but Orthodox. I was apostate for years, and eventually found my way back: but more determined to remain an "unorthodox" Orthodox, finding a golden thread in the tradition and life of the church, but not blindly swallowing everything that comes under the rubric of "tradition" as something to which I must submit. I think many of us hunger for something that is indeed present in the institutional churches, but can't in good conscience accept much that comes with it -- whether that's scandal and corruption, overly rigid and puritanical theology, narrow confessional exclusivity, or whatever. We're decidedly not liberals, but we're also not trads; or perhaps, we are traditionalists of a more generous, deeper, more hidden tradition. For me, confession after all those years was a great grace: but I am fortunate to have a wise, loving, pastorally minded parish priest who is truly a father to his flock and first and foremost a lover of Christ. In such a parish I can hide and pray and repent and weep and rejoice and follow the secret call of the Lord; I pray you can find, if not a home, something homelike ;-). Peace and joy in the risen Lord.
Thanks for this. I go to an Episcopal church. Feel called and drawn to Catholicism yet revulsed by the sex abuse. It's a strange division... I feel my soul is Catholic yet I know the term is not traditionally intelligible outside the institution.
The Byzantines call themselves "Orthodox in communion with Rome." As an ecumenically minded Orthodox, I've taken to jokingly calling myself "Catholic in communion with Moscow."
Another interesting read. I live in California. A couple of evangelical/charismatic churches there resisted the Covid shutdown, went all the way to the Supreme Court and won there. The state of California had to pay the legal expenses as a consequence. I think the court said if Walmart and Costco get to be open so do churches.
Thanks--my wife and I were just talking about 4 years ago when Easter was CANCELLED. I still can't get over it. So many churches just rolled over and played dead. I take comfort in knowing that the first thing Jesus did after that donkey ride on Palm Sunday was cleanse the temple of the money changers.
A speculative thought, unfortunately the sacramental churches were often tools of empire and central authority found in their very names - Roman, Byzantine, Church of England (with the monarch as head no less or co-head) so an unconscious deference to central authority is there. Whereas Protestant churches often were acts of rebellion against central authority though as time went on they could become tools of empire and the status quo. Over rendering unto Caesar is a snare.
yup...churches with a stronger hierarchical or organizational structure certainly are more prone to rendering unto Caesar--much harder to make the rogue Protestant or independent sacramental churches get in line.
It is interesting that churches for whom the weekly sacrament of the Lord’s Supper is central and efficacious in a deep way rolled over unlike those churches I mention which emphasize the Bible and the individual experience of the Spirit as paramount.
I resonate deeply with what you said here…and with the comments below. In a home church, what does one do about the sacraments? Trust God’s grace is just as present in the bread and wine consecrated in a home liturgical rite?
I think that's what you have to do, Josh. I don't know why it took me so long to realize it. It took the bishops holding the Eucharist hostage during Covid to open my eyes.
It will take me some time to open myself to the idea of not needing a priest in the way I thought I did, but I’m intrigued.
When it comes to teaching, I’m light years behind in knowledge to someone like you or the Milbank’s, so I would’t really know where to begin on how to formally teach my family. I would struggle in this area. Though, I must say, I see our local Anglican and Catholic priests doing a very poor job already so I couldn’t be much worse.
It wasn't easy to bring myself to acknowledging this. But when Covid and the lockdowns happened, I still had young children in the house (my two youngest were 9 and 11 at the time) and after we missed Easter, then Christmas, and then coming up to another Easter, I didn't feel that I had a choice anymore in good conscience, sinner though I am.
Thankyou for responding. I mean given the apparent high confidence in the Institution of the Roman Catholic Church held by our anonymous author, what in your view might have been his attitude or advice to his Friends in the current circumstances of that Institution half a century on? Or in other words: Does a living Christian Hermeticism depend crucially on the healthy functioning of the Roman Church? Would our author also perhaps have directed us to the catacombs (or elsewhere)?
Many thanks for your thoughts on this for me burning question. Pax et bonum,
Actually, if you know 'Covenant of the Heart' (aka 'Lazarus, Come Forth!') which was written after MOTT, that he was already feeling some betrayal and anxieties following the reforms of Vatican II. I don't exactly know what he would say today, but I am sure he would have modified his position. He might have become a kind of Lefebvrist, as he did have Traditionalist tendencies (though I doubt he would have been so welcome among them once they found out about his more heretical opinions. I know he wouldn't be happy.
On the other hand, I think his opinion of "a healthy functioning Roman Church" may have departed from considering it in terms of the ecclesial bureaucracy. Pseudo-Dionysius is only useful poetically here--but politically dangerous and easily exploited. So maybe he would think of an underground Church? I don't know.
Thankyou again. As a Platonist, if he was a Platonist, why he would have placed such significance or ultimate reliance on ANY earthly manifestation of the Church Above(ie the Form of the true church) remains indeed a mystery!
Even the underground church lies within the Cave... .and unless it attends also to the Light (which I take to be the essence of the "Mystical" as against the "Instututional") it too risks corruption , surely? Owen Barfield once wrote back to me (in the 80's) confirming that he had indeed once felt moved to become an Anglican but (paraphrasing) he added that today it would probably have been the Christian Community (Movement for Religious Renewal) ? And indeed his funeral service was conducted by Roger Druitt of that denomination, if I am not mistaken.
Where two or three are gathered together in my name…
The sectarian squabbles of Christianity have long since passed from irrelevance into something far worse. Pay it no more mind. One of the pitfalls of modernity is getting suckered into constantly feeling a need to stake out one’s position. Waste of time.
I do think it’s fine for many (probably most) people to seek more community than house church affords. I know I can’t cut it with that; but that doesn’t mean I like any of my institutional choices. Situation is hard for everyone, especially people with kids at home—as the anecdotes with your children evince.
just acquired a beautiful 2019 BCP from the Anglican Church of North America for ten bucks. In terms of religion, you don’t need much more than that (and scripture) on a basic level, I think—that and the good green earth. But one craves fellowship and other minds to learn from. The theologian who has spoken to me the most in the past few years is Paul Tillich and, if he counts, Jean Grenier (Camus’ teacher), a sort of Taoist/Christian quietist.
A Taoist/Christian quietist. Cool! I think I could be that.
I like Tillich too, but many of my Catholic theology colleagues don't.
Academics tend to be fussy—like babies. Tillich is the 20th century Eckhart or Eriugena. Then again, the Church censored the work of those men, so I guess it figures.
Any particular recommendations from Tillich and Grenier? I know of Tillich but haven't read anything from either, so the more elementary the better :)
It's been decades since I read Tillich. I don't think think he made a huge impression on me--but I'm pretty sure my friend, the novelist Jonathan Geltner is a fan. Grenier...I have never read. So sorry to not be much help!
The Courage to Be is Tillich’s famous book, and to me it’s a great work of “negative theology.” But the place to start with Tillich is probably his sermons/essays, of which there are several collections.
Grenier is very subtle, maybe an acquired taste. I like his book on Taoism, but I don’t think that’s in English. If you don’t read French and can find an English copy, his book of essays called The Islands is short and, to me at least, strangely powerful. I periodically re-read that book and never fail to find it inspiring.
That quote from Simone Weil is so powerful. And rewilding sounds like a good idea to me! I raise my glass to you Michael Martin. Cheers! And here’s to new adventures.
FWIW, I've come to consider myself pan-Catholic, focusing on what moves me from Roman, Orthodox and Anglican versions.
me, too
Thank you for sharing a snapshot of your family's religious practices, and your explanation of your idea of "Alternative Catholicism".
As you likely know--from having read both my memoir and my latest work-in-progress--I have always considered myself to be on the margins of the institutional church, one foot in, one out. Moreover, I have never felt any real relationship to my Catholic (writ broad and deep) beliefs. I have not paid much attention to them, and have found few, if any, of the church leaders to be holy men. So, when their atrocities have been exposed, I don't feel alienation from Catholicism at large. It's a Wisdom Tradition that dates back millenia, and its mystics, writers, philosophers, poets, and artists have given us an enormous body of rich material to nourish our souls. That Great Tradition is what I associate with my sense of Catholicism (write broad and deep), and not the petty and corrupt members of the hierarchy.
Thanks for getting this Substack going. I enjoy your writings and admire your lifestyle. You use digital media very artistically (I'm still learning the basics of how to post something to my brand-new website. )
Thanks for this, Ken. It's a blessing to know you.
Correction: should be "never felt any relationship to my Catholic "leaders in the hierarchy."
thank you for putting into words what many feel (even if they don't want to admit it), especially since the 2020 events. what is left in the institutional form but an egregore? it is tough, but facing reality is imperative.
Love that comment of Massingham's. I came across him while researching Rolf Gardiner. Any recommendations of Massingham's books? So many I don't know where to start.
His 'The Tree of Life' is in my top 5 ever
Ordered, thanks.
So is there a deep, largely inarticulate English sophiology to be found in traditional Anglican piety?
There is, especially in Thomas Traherne, Henry Vaughan, the Philadelphians, and in some aspects of the Cambridge Platonists. The Anglicans, for all of their political and social ridiculousness, still have remnants of some of the medieval Catholic folk practices that the RCs have tried to ignore in favor of "inclusiveness and modernity."
Just a note on Massingham: I said "ordered" prematurely -- that book is unobtanium. Perhaps you could have a word with Angelico about a new edition? And perhaps you could write the introduction? In the meantime, off to interlibrary loan...
Actually, we talked about just that. It may happen.
Just went looking for a copy of Traherne's Centuries to replace the one that vanished from my library years ago, and saw your new edition 🙏
Thank you for this. I was raised Roman catholic, and in my early teens my revulsion at similar scandals led me to distance myself from the Church, and eventually into atheism. In recent years I have come back to religious belief and explored the Catholic tradition more deeply (Weil, french phenomenology, Augustine etc). I have started praying the rosary and attending mass again. And I have known many Catholics who I think of as moral examples (the catholic worker movement is still quite strong where I live). But I can't feel completely at home. I have no problem being an unorthodox Catholic, but it makes it more difficult to find community, especially among people my age who seem to embrace rigid dogma for its own sake, or to be 'trad' first and Catholic second. I also find the sacrament of confession particularly difficult, given my issues with the institutional church - I haven't been in years and I can't see myself going in the near future. In any case, this was a great read - I really appreciate your perspective.
Thank you, Isabella. We're not alone.
Isabella, I'm in a similar situation, but Orthodox. I was apostate for years, and eventually found my way back: but more determined to remain an "unorthodox" Orthodox, finding a golden thread in the tradition and life of the church, but not blindly swallowing everything that comes under the rubric of "tradition" as something to which I must submit. I think many of us hunger for something that is indeed present in the institutional churches, but can't in good conscience accept much that comes with it -- whether that's scandal and corruption, overly rigid and puritanical theology, narrow confessional exclusivity, or whatever. We're decidedly not liberals, but we're also not trads; or perhaps, we are traditionalists of a more generous, deeper, more hidden tradition. For me, confession after all those years was a great grace: but I am fortunate to have a wise, loving, pastorally minded parish priest who is truly a father to his flock and first and foremost a lover of Christ. In such a parish I can hide and pray and repent and weep and rejoice and follow the secret call of the Lord; I pray you can find, if not a home, something homelike ;-). Peace and joy in the risen Lord.
Thanks for this. I go to an Episcopal church. Feel called and drawn to Catholicism yet revulsed by the sex abuse. It's a strange division... I feel my soul is Catholic yet I know the term is not traditionally intelligible outside the institution.
The Byzantines call themselves "Orthodox in communion with Rome." As an ecumenically minded Orthodox, I've taken to jokingly calling myself "Catholic in communion with Moscow."
another illuminating read, thank you.
Enjoyed the post very much. Interesting update on what's been happening in the Martin family.
Another interesting read. I live in California. A couple of evangelical/charismatic churches there resisted the Covid shutdown, went all the way to the Supreme Court and won there. The state of California had to pay the legal expenses as a consequence. I think the court said if Walmart and Costco get to be open so do churches.
Thanks--my wife and I were just talking about 4 years ago when Easter was CANCELLED. I still can't get over it. So many churches just rolled over and played dead. I take comfort in knowing that the first thing Jesus did after that donkey ride on Palm Sunday was cleanse the temple of the money changers.
A speculative thought, unfortunately the sacramental churches were often tools of empire and central authority found in their very names - Roman, Byzantine, Church of England (with the monarch as head no less or co-head) so an unconscious deference to central authority is there. Whereas Protestant churches often were acts of rebellion against central authority though as time went on they could become tools of empire and the status quo. Over rendering unto Caesar is a snare.
yup...churches with a stronger hierarchical or organizational structure certainly are more prone to rendering unto Caesar--much harder to make the rogue Protestant or independent sacramental churches get in line.
It is interesting that churches for whom the weekly sacrament of the Lord’s Supper is central and efficacious in a deep way rolled over unlike those churches I mention which emphasize the Bible and the individual experience of the Spirit as paramount.
I resonate deeply with what you said here…and with the comments below. In a home church, what does one do about the sacraments? Trust God’s grace is just as present in the bread and wine consecrated in a home liturgical rite?
I think that's what you have to do, Josh. I don't know why it took me so long to realize it. It took the bishops holding the Eucharist hostage during Covid to open my eyes.
It will take me some time to open myself to the idea of not needing a priest in the way I thought I did, but I’m intrigued.
When it comes to teaching, I’m light years behind in knowledge to someone like you or the Milbank’s, so I would’t really know where to begin on how to formally teach my family. I would struggle in this area. Though, I must say, I see our local Anglican and Catholic priests doing a very poor job already so I couldn’t be much worse.
It wasn't easy to bring myself to acknowledging this. But when Covid and the lockdowns happened, I still had young children in the house (my two youngest were 9 and 11 at the time) and after we missed Easter, then Christmas, and then coming up to another Easter, I didn't feel that I had a choice anymore in good conscience, sinner though I am.
Thank you. Where in your estimation does the situation vis a vis the Church leave one such as the anonymous author of MOTT?
In what way?
Thankyou for responding. I mean given the apparent high confidence in the Institution of the Roman Catholic Church held by our anonymous author, what in your view might have been his attitude or advice to his Friends in the current circumstances of that Institution half a century on? Or in other words: Does a living Christian Hermeticism depend crucially on the healthy functioning of the Roman Church? Would our author also perhaps have directed us to the catacombs (or elsewhere)?
Many thanks for your thoughts on this for me burning question. Pax et bonum,
Alistair.
I have wondered that many times myself.
Actually, if you know 'Covenant of the Heart' (aka 'Lazarus, Come Forth!') which was written after MOTT, that he was already feeling some betrayal and anxieties following the reforms of Vatican II. I don't exactly know what he would say today, but I am sure he would have modified his position. He might have become a kind of Lefebvrist, as he did have Traditionalist tendencies (though I doubt he would have been so welcome among them once they found out about his more heretical opinions. I know he wouldn't be happy.
On the other hand, I think his opinion of "a healthy functioning Roman Church" may have departed from considering it in terms of the ecclesial bureaucracy. Pseudo-Dionysius is only useful poetically here--but politically dangerous and easily exploited. So maybe he would think of an underground Church? I don't know.
Thankyou again. As a Platonist, if he was a Platonist, why he would have placed such significance or ultimate reliance on ANY earthly manifestation of the Church Above(ie the Form of the true church) remains indeed a mystery!
Even the underground church lies within the Cave... .and unless it attends also to the Light (which I take to be the essence of the "Mystical" as against the "Instututional") it too risks corruption , surely? Owen Barfield once wrote back to me (in the 80's) confirming that he had indeed once felt moved to become an Anglican but (paraphrasing) he added that today it would probably have been the Christian Community (Movement for Religious Renewal) ? And indeed his funeral service was conducted by Roger Druitt of that denomination, if I am not mistaken.
Kind regards,
Alistair.