Yes, “the past is a different country” This writing brought to mind the book - Motel of the Mysteries where the author did a send up of archaeological interpretations of the past.
The Amazon blurb - “ It is the year 4022; all of the ancient country of Usa has been buried under many feet of detritus from a catastrophe that occurred back in 1985. Imagine, then, the excitement that Howard Carson, an amateur archeologist at best, experienced when in crossing the perimeter of an abandoned excavation site he felt the ground give way beneath him and found himself at the bottom of a shaft, which, judging from the DO NOT DISTURB sign hanging from an archaic doorknob, was clearly the entrance to a still-sealed burial chamber. Carson's incredible discoveries, including the remains of two bodies, one of then on a ceremonial bed facing an altar that appeared to be a means of communicating with the Gods and the other lying in a porcelain sarcophagus in the Inner Chamber, permitted him to piece together the whole fabric of that extraordinary civilization.”
It's like how prehistoric people didn't actually live in caves; it's just that caves are where things are more likely to be protected against the elements. So we can't find the 99% of stuff outside the caves, but we find the remaining 1% in caves, and then we declare that they must have lived in caves. What a brilliant inference.
The box of unknown unknowns is always fascinating, isn't it?—the things we don't know that we don't know.
Since you’re feeling a bit like Martin Luther, not sure you’ll be sympathetic to this…. Anyway, in the area of philosophy, early Christians adopted Socrates, Plato, etc as sort of proto-Christians. Part of the understanding of ‘Catholic’ was that it embraced all truth, hence whatever was true in Pagan philosophy was essentially part of Catholic philosophy even if it was chronologically prior to the incarnation of Christ. Do you know if there was ever a similar move to include Pagan religious truths (Jewish truths for sure)?
If you're talking Druid type pagans,we probably can't say, as we can with the Greeks and Roman's, because they didn't write anything down. But I'm pretty sure the Druid sensibility influenced Celtic Christianity. It's so different.
Why couldn't it be both? There was certainly an old religion that Christianity supplanted, and memory of it must have remained. So perhaps those stone masons understood that the old religion - whatever that was, but surely fixed in nature - had now been Christed?
It's certainly possible, but Hutton argues that this interpretation of the Green Man as vegetation deity only appears after Frazer and that the historical record doesn't have anything like it otherwise.
I live in a very woodys area and I have alot of pine trees in my backyard. I have seen green man in my trees as well as other tree spirits I have captured their faces by taking pictures of them. The green man to me of course is about abundance and green magick.
Your talk of little green men obviously made me think of aliens—but noticing how that was a false association in this context, I then thought of the kami from Miyazaki's film *Princess Mononoke*. You know, these guys:
Your posts and music are fun and enlightening, Michael! As a melancholic, I appreciate your love of beauty, artistry, musicality, and whimsy from the Medieval/Renaissance times. My husband lovingly teases that I am his Lutheran Marianist, based on my education philosophy, home decor, and library.
May I recommend Mendelssohn’s Symphony #5 (Reformation) for this season? The Dresden Amen in the opening of the 1st movement takes my breath away. Performing it on the cello with a couple of symphony orchestras, before my 11 children came along, was profoundly moving.
I will soon be marinating my rump roast to make the sauerbraten for our Reformation dinner...I got the joke!!
Luther’s “A Mighty Fortress is our God” includes a great comfort to families in its final verse:
“Nature Spirits and Elemental Beings” by Marko Pogaćnic ——- you’ve reminded me of THIS CAPTIVATING BOOK!!! I’m not remembering if he mentions ‘the green man’ by that name but you’ll see on the front cover, the face is similar to the pillars☺️
It’s an interesting story to follow. Written in the late 90’s.
Yes, “the past is a different country” This writing brought to mind the book - Motel of the Mysteries where the author did a send up of archaeological interpretations of the past.
https://www.amazon.com/Motel-Mysteries-David-Macaulay/dp/0395284252
The Amazon blurb - “ It is the year 4022; all of the ancient country of Usa has been buried under many feet of detritus from a catastrophe that occurred back in 1985. Imagine, then, the excitement that Howard Carson, an amateur archeologist at best, experienced when in crossing the perimeter of an abandoned excavation site he felt the ground give way beneath him and found himself at the bottom of a shaft, which, judging from the DO NOT DISTURB sign hanging from an archaic doorknob, was clearly the entrance to a still-sealed burial chamber. Carson's incredible discoveries, including the remains of two bodies, one of then on a ceremonial bed facing an altar that appeared to be a means of communicating with the Gods and the other lying in a porcelain sarcophagus in the Inner Chamber, permitted him to piece together the whole fabric of that extraordinary civilization.”
It's like how prehistoric people didn't actually live in caves; it's just that caves are where things are more likely to be protected against the elements. So we can't find the 99% of stuff outside the caves, but we find the remaining 1% in caves, and then we declare that they must have lived in caves. What a brilliant inference.
The box of unknown unknowns is always fascinating, isn't it?—the things we don't know that we don't know.
My intuitive hit is that the Green Man is related to Cernunnos, the god of the wild hunt.
I like that
Shameful plug:
https://hereticalhare.substack.com/p/hunting-season-cernunnos-and-the?publication_id=2073969&post_id=151756058&isFreemail=false&r=15c4r2&triedRedirect=true
Since you’re feeling a bit like Martin Luther, not sure you’ll be sympathetic to this…. Anyway, in the area of philosophy, early Christians adopted Socrates, Plato, etc as sort of proto-Christians. Part of the understanding of ‘Catholic’ was that it embraced all truth, hence whatever was true in Pagan philosophy was essentially part of Catholic philosophy even if it was chronologically prior to the incarnation of Christ. Do you know if there was ever a similar move to include Pagan religious truths (Jewish truths for sure)?
If you're talking Druid type pagans,we probably can't say, as we can with the Greeks and Roman's, because they didn't write anything down. But I'm pretty sure the Druid sensibility influenced Celtic Christianity. It's so different.
Why couldn't it be both? There was certainly an old religion that Christianity supplanted, and memory of it must have remained. So perhaps those stone masons understood that the old religion - whatever that was, but surely fixed in nature - had now been Christed?
It's certainly possible, but Hutton argues that this interpretation of the Green Man as vegetation deity only appears after Frazer and that the historical record doesn't have anything like it otherwise.
I live in a very woodys area and I have alot of pine trees in my backyard. I have seen green man in my trees as well as other tree spirits I have captured their faces by taking pictures of them. The green man to me of course is about abundance and green magick.
Your talk of little green men obviously made me think of aliens—but noticing how that was a false association in this context, I then thought of the kami from Miyazaki's film *Princess Mononoke*. You know, these guys:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/70c90e17b4bf7f12fed4e440d0e504a2/tumblr_ni4esyybAm1qcopb3o2_540.gif
Also, I just e-mailed you a photo of the altar in my icon corner.
Your posts and music are fun and enlightening, Michael! As a melancholic, I appreciate your love of beauty, artistry, musicality, and whimsy from the Medieval/Renaissance times. My husband lovingly teases that I am his Lutheran Marianist, based on my education philosophy, home decor, and library.
May I recommend Mendelssohn’s Symphony #5 (Reformation) for this season? The Dresden Amen in the opening of the 1st movement takes my breath away. Performing it on the cello with a couple of symphony orchestras, before my 11 children came along, was profoundly moving.
I will soon be marinating my rump roast to make the sauerbraten for our Reformation dinner...I got the joke!!
Luther’s “A Mighty Fortress is our God” includes a great comfort to families in its final verse:
And take they our life,
Goods, fame, child and wife,
Let these all be gone,
They yet have nothing won;
The Kingdom ours remaineth. Amen.
Thanks, Bonnie--and I'm glad you got the joke!
And now I'm hungry.
Fascinating post! Is there a book specifically about medieval folk Catholic beliefs that you would recommend?
Hutton's books 'The Rise and Fall of Merry England' and "Stations of the Sun'
thank you!
“Nature Spirits and Elemental Beings” by Marko Pogaćnic ——- you’ve reminded me of THIS CAPTIVATING BOOK!!! I’m not remembering if he mentions ‘the green man’ by that name but you’ll see on the front cover, the face is similar to the pillars☺️
It’s an interesting story to follow. Written in the late 90’s.
Do you have an article that details more of your Pagan-Christianity views?
Quite a few if you look through my archive.
reminds me of HG Wells’s THE DOOR IN THE WALL…
love this
Thanks!