The college seminary of the order I belong to closed in 1990. The philosophy program was moved to a Catholic University in NYC. The situation was not dissimilar. The only thing that really mattered was the basketball program. At least half of the student body didn’t belong in undergrad programs. They were there because that’s what middle class Catholic kids from Long Island did after graduation. As a result the program was considerably dumbed down. It was pitiful. The only way to get a decent background in philosophy was to take electives with a select few professors who were committed to making sure those of us going on to study theology were well prepared. I will be forever grateful to and for them. That said I graduated with honors, not because I’m smart or worked hard, but because the bar was so low. In the college seminary I would have probably graduated in the middle 3s.
It’s really rather sad to see what has become of American education. I saw a report recently—can’t recall where—that said 20% or more PhD candidates are functionally illiterate. We’ve got to do better but, as you say, it’s not coming back.
Personally I think it’s all about greed, but that’s another story.
This is so tragically accurate. I spent 25 years on staff at a small Catholic liberal arts college. Without passing judgment on the administrators and faculty, I concur that the forces working against its viability have been obvious for a long time. The probably overwhelming forces, though my school continues to hang on.
A liberal education is essentially worthless, in a practical sense, although not without value. Once it was instrumentalized as a path to a better career, the game was over. Too many people went to college because they bought the career hype. If that ever had a kernal of truth, those days are long over, as many grads are currently finding out. College should return to it's elite status, not in a sense of being the province of solely the rich, but in sense that only those truly interested in cultivating their minds should attend.
The Supreme Court should overturn Griggs vs Duke Power Company and let private corporations administer tests again. None of this using college diplomas as a stand in.
A point to add -- many of the Catholic colleges benefited immensely by employing clergy. The college where I taught employed many well educated nuns when I arrived. Over the years of my career, the number dwindled. Young women no longer wanted to become sisters in an order. Not only were the sisters paid below what a lay faculty member would get, at the end of every year, their order would meet and decide how much of their salaries each sister would be allowed to keep. The left-over money would be donated back to the college. This was a substantial sum and made it possible for the financial plan of the college to work, but this sum grew smaller every year until, when I retired, it was zero. There is now only one sister employed at my college. Something similar has happened at almost all the Catholic colleges.
My PhD would have been in Mathematics, but all of this applies even there. I am glad that I got out before spending any more time locked into a dying system.
I still would like to write that dissertation though. We need to find a new system that allows researchers to connect and their research to compound.
This reminds me of both my time at university and in the army reserve. It felt like The Wire. All about cooking the books and making numbers on reports look good for who knows who. We had so many group projects in university (especially in my bullshit CompSci degree) and I couldn't shake the feeling it was only to get as many people to reach a passing grade as possible.
Art professor here. 👋 The problem is here too. It’s likely even worse. I, like you, often feel pangs of conscience about what we’re offering to students in this climate. For their part, they mostly have none of the fire it will take to bear the rejection inherent in the field. I do my best to equip them.
I finally picked up Morello's book, after all that recent hubbub. Your discussion here makes me think of his claim that when education is at the service of the dissemination of error, the scenario "should be understood as symptomatic of epistemic alienation from being itself, indeed of the divorce of mind itself from reality."
I was encouraged by professors in my English program at the university I graduated from to continue in 'academia' and go into the graduate degree program. I'm glad I didn't- no offense to my professors, several of whom were wonderful practitioners of 'old-school' scholarship. I would have ended up in debt, with an essentially pointless masters degree. Incidentally, this is not only an issue in the humanities, it is happening in sciences as well. The jobs just aren't there anymore, especially if you are interested in serious intellectual research.
The reality is that Marxist/Feminist theory - as opposed to the frameworks that preceded them fail to appeal to men. Studies have consistently shown that once men are no longer the majority of practitioners in a field that field loses prestige/market value. Just look at what medicine (now female-dominated) is becoming - most physicians work hellacious hours in assembly-line conditions for massive conglomerates. As a woman I don’t say this with any joy - however it is the reality. Any field that wants to thrive needs to be able to appeal to men. It wasn’t that long ago when many men proudly studied the humanities. As a former teacher I also agree with the dismal state of K-12 education. Students don’t read entire novels - even in AP English.
Not sure I concur with the gender correlation. Women now outnumber men in higher education as students. The commoditization in medicine is more the result of economics than anything else. Specialist medicine remains highly lucrative, assembly line family practice is simply a grind.
The state of affairs has really been bad for a long time. The whole mess really soured me and I abandoned the idea of pursuing a PhD. I couldn't saddle myself with debt to pursue a degree that might not actually benefit me in the end, because I couldn't stand the idea of staying in academia, despite pressure within my graduate program to do just that. I'm blessed that I had a funded graduate program and no debt from it, but that is not the case for many others. I actively tell younger folks to steer clear, it really is a ponzi scheme.
Sounds pretty correct. I think a slight hope, and a real further loss if this just plays out, is that many of the students (especially at Catholic schools where a little bit of the reason for it still gets through) actually do value the liberal arts aspect of their education (though the vast majority are in career oriented programs) as they do sense that life is supposed to be about more than your job and that this experience opens up some of that for them. I don’t think we have good replacements for the liberal arts college. It would be good to have models to develop.
It’s particularly tragic for the future as Liberal Arts is an education all else is just training. But with the capture of LA by the hippies decades ago, it was clear Marxism was going to overtake reason. I was an English major in 1976, was hired by IBM just as the computer revolution was taking off. Three English majors were among my group of 30 trainees; our Branch Manager wanted educated people - IBM could, and did, train us. My son majored (BU, 2018) in History & Philosophy, won the university’s annual Shakespeare writing contest, and now is successfully working for the major IT research firm.
The world decided it needed more MBAs, we got too many, financialized everything… forgot “should” just because we “could,” and reaping what we sowed. Sad.
The college seminary of the order I belong to closed in 1990. The philosophy program was moved to a Catholic University in NYC. The situation was not dissimilar. The only thing that really mattered was the basketball program. At least half of the student body didn’t belong in undergrad programs. They were there because that’s what middle class Catholic kids from Long Island did after graduation. As a result the program was considerably dumbed down. It was pitiful. The only way to get a decent background in philosophy was to take electives with a select few professors who were committed to making sure those of us going on to study theology were well prepared. I will be forever grateful to and for them. That said I graduated with honors, not because I’m smart or worked hard, but because the bar was so low. In the college seminary I would have probably graduated in the middle 3s.
It’s really rather sad to see what has become of American education. I saw a report recently—can’t recall where—that said 20% or more PhD candidates are functionally illiterate. We’ve got to do better but, as you say, it’s not coming back.
Personally I think it’s all about greed, but that’s another story.
greed married to self-importance and a feeling of entitlement
and I'm not blaming the students, who are the victims in this travesty
This is so tragically accurate. I spent 25 years on staff at a small Catholic liberal arts college. Without passing judgment on the administrators and faculty, I concur that the forces working against its viability have been obvious for a long time. The probably overwhelming forces, though my school continues to hang on.
A liberal education is essentially worthless, in a practical sense, although not without value. Once it was instrumentalized as a path to a better career, the game was over. Too many people went to college because they bought the career hype. If that ever had a kernal of truth, those days are long over, as many grads are currently finding out. College should return to it's elite status, not in a sense of being the province of solely the rich, but in sense that only those truly interested in cultivating their minds should attend.
The Supreme Court should overturn Griggs vs Duke Power Company and let private corporations administer tests again. None of this using college diplomas as a stand in.
A point to add -- many of the Catholic colleges benefited immensely by employing clergy. The college where I taught employed many well educated nuns when I arrived. Over the years of my career, the number dwindled. Young women no longer wanted to become sisters in an order. Not only were the sisters paid below what a lay faculty member would get, at the end of every year, their order would meet and decide how much of their salaries each sister would be allowed to keep. The left-over money would be donated back to the college. This was a substantial sum and made it possible for the financial plan of the college to work, but this sum grew smaller every year until, when I retired, it was zero. There is now only one sister employed at my college. Something similar has happened at almost all the Catholic colleges.
The worst of all consequences, an average mind that thinks it is elite!
My PhD would have been in Mathematics, but all of this applies even there. I am glad that I got out before spending any more time locked into a dying system.
I still would like to write that dissertation though. We need to find a new system that allows researchers to connect and their research to compound.
That would be wonderful! A parallel university and journal system that allows knowledge to flourish instead of protecting a sinking ship.
This reminds me of both my time at university and in the army reserve. It felt like The Wire. All about cooking the books and making numbers on reports look good for who knows who. We had so many group projects in university (especially in my bullshit CompSci degree) and I couldn't shake the feeling it was only to get as many people to reach a passing grade as possible.
Art professor here. 👋 The problem is here too. It’s likely even worse. I, like you, often feel pangs of conscience about what we’re offering to students in this climate. For their part, they mostly have none of the fire it will take to bear the rejection inherent in the field. I do my best to equip them.
Hey, speaking of hedge schools . . . ?
I finally picked up Morello's book, after all that recent hubbub. Your discussion here makes me think of his claim that when education is at the service of the dissemination of error, the scenario "should be understood as symptomatic of epistemic alienation from being itself, indeed of the divorce of mind itself from reality."
I was encouraged by professors in my English program at the university I graduated from to continue in 'academia' and go into the graduate degree program. I'm glad I didn't- no offense to my professors, several of whom were wonderful practitioners of 'old-school' scholarship. I would have ended up in debt, with an essentially pointless masters degree. Incidentally, this is not only an issue in the humanities, it is happening in sciences as well. The jobs just aren't there anymore, especially if you are interested in serious intellectual research.
The reality is that Marxist/Feminist theory - as opposed to the frameworks that preceded them fail to appeal to men. Studies have consistently shown that once men are no longer the majority of practitioners in a field that field loses prestige/market value. Just look at what medicine (now female-dominated) is becoming - most physicians work hellacious hours in assembly-line conditions for massive conglomerates. As a woman I don’t say this with any joy - however it is the reality. Any field that wants to thrive needs to be able to appeal to men. It wasn’t that long ago when many men proudly studied the humanities. As a former teacher I also agree with the dismal state of K-12 education. Students don’t read entire novels - even in AP English.
Not sure I concur with the gender correlation. Women now outnumber men in higher education as students. The commoditization in medicine is more the result of economics than anything else. Specialist medicine remains highly lucrative, assembly line family practice is simply a grind.
The state of affairs has really been bad for a long time. The whole mess really soured me and I abandoned the idea of pursuing a PhD. I couldn't saddle myself with debt to pursue a degree that might not actually benefit me in the end, because I couldn't stand the idea of staying in academia, despite pressure within my graduate program to do just that. I'm blessed that I had a funded graduate program and no debt from it, but that is not the case for many others. I actively tell younger folks to steer clear, it really is a ponzi scheme.
Sounds pretty correct. I think a slight hope, and a real further loss if this just plays out, is that many of the students (especially at Catholic schools where a little bit of the reason for it still gets through) actually do value the liberal arts aspect of their education (though the vast majority are in career oriented programs) as they do sense that life is supposed to be about more than your job and that this experience opens up some of that for them. I don’t think we have good replacements for the liberal arts college. It would be good to have models to develop.
It’s particularly tragic for the future as Liberal Arts is an education all else is just training. But with the capture of LA by the hippies decades ago, it was clear Marxism was going to overtake reason. I was an English major in 1976, was hired by IBM just as the computer revolution was taking off. Three English majors were among my group of 30 trainees; our Branch Manager wanted educated people - IBM could, and did, train us. My son majored (BU, 2018) in History & Philosophy, won the university’s annual Shakespeare writing contest, and now is successfully working for the major IT research firm.
The world decided it needed more MBAs, we got too many, financialized everything… forgot “should” just because we “could,” and reaping what we sowed. Sad.
“ The jig, at long last, is up.”
Good work.
Kick Out the Jams
Things must've been fun on the way up, but seem much less fun now that we are on the way (back) down.